Discussion:
Judge Immediately Bans Sale of Qualcomm W-CDMA Chips
(too old to reply)
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
2008-01-04 10:23:15 UTC
Permalink
"U.S. District Judge James Selna issued the ruling Monday, the latest in
a series of legal victories Broadcom scored over Qualcomm last year
related to rights to technology for cell phones. The three patented
chips use WCDMA technology, a small but fast-growing part of the
wireless market used mostly in American T-Mobile and AT&T phones.

Selna ruled that Qualcomm can continue to sell other disputed chips in
the United States until January 2009, but must pay royalties on those
chips, which use a different technology called EVDO and are used on
Verizon and Sprint networks in America. He also allowed Qualcomm to use
a patented Broadcom walkie-talkie technology until January 2009."

Broadcom and Qualcomm must be very far apart on settling. Reminds me of
the whole RIM mess last year, but they settled eventually, as everyone
predicted.

This whole patent dispute is one reason that W-CDMA didn't make it into
the iPhone.
Ron
2008-01-04 13:03:43 UTC
Permalink
YOu're posting old news. Qualcomm already announced new
complaint chipsets

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0262822220080102


On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 02:23:15 -0800, SMS ???• ?
Post by SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
"U.S. District Judge James Selna issued the ruling Monday, the latest in
a series of legal victories Broadcom scored over Qualcomm last year
related to rights to technology for cell phones. The three patented
chips use WCDMA technology, a small but fast-growing part of the
wireless market used mostly in American T-Mobile and AT&T phones.
Selna ruled that Qualcomm can continue to sell other disputed chips in
the United States until January 2009, but must pay royalties on those
chips, which use a different technology called EVDO and are used on
Verizon and Sprint networks in America. He also allowed Qualcomm to use
a patented Broadcom walkie-talkie technology until January 2009."
Broadcom and Qualcomm must be very far apart on settling. Reminds me of
the whole RIM mess last year, but they settled eventually, as everyone
predicted.
This whole patent dispute is one reason that W-CDMA didn't make it into
the iPhone.
That's a fiction about the iphone. It was a battery consumption and
size issue.
SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
2008-01-04 14:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron
YOu're posting old news. Qualcomm already announced new
complaint chipsets
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0262822220080102
I hope they're new chipsets are not complaint chipsets!

They're announced, but not available yet. It'll take a while for the
chips to be manufactured, then designed into phones. It could easily
take six months to see products with the new chips.

Broadcom will likely claim that the new chips still violate their patents.
j***@hotmail.com
2008-01-05 18:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
Post by Ron
YOu're posting old news. Qualcomm already announced new
complaint chipsets
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0262822220080102
I hope they're new chipsets are not complaint chipsets!
They're announced, but not available yet. It'll take a while for the
chips to be manufactured, then designed into phones. It could easily
take six months to see products with the new chips.
Broadcom will likely claim that the new chips still violate their patents.
More reason to wait for the Google phone and the results of the analog
TV bandwidth auctions. Don't buy a new phone this year !!
Bill Kearney
2008-01-05 19:57:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hotmail.com
More reason to wait for the Google phone and the results of the analog
TV bandwidth auctions. Don't buy a new phone this year !!
Eh, until they actually start deploying radio HARDWARE it's pointess to
speculate. You can have all the superior technology you want, but if it
doesn't have radios on poles covering areas you need then it's pointless.
We ditched cingular for precisely this reason, their coverage just sucks in
the places we need to go. Doesn't matter how good the phones are if the
coverage sucks.
4phun
2008-01-06 00:06:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hotmail.com
Post by SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
Post by Ron
YOu're posting old news. Qualcomm already announced new
complaint chipsets
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0262822220080102
I hope they're new chipsets are not complaint chipsets!
They're announced, but not available yet. It'll take a while for the
chips to be manufactured, then designed into phones. It could easily
take six months to see products with the new chips.
Broadcom will likely claim that the new chips still violate their patents.
More reason to wait for the Google phone and the results of the analog
TV bandwidth auctions. Don't buy a new phone this year !!
Nah the iPhone is some much sheer fun you will miss out on a year of
great stuff. Just sell it and get your money back when something
better arrives.
Ness-Net
2008-01-06 04:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4phun
Post by j***@hotmail.com
Post by SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
Post by Ron
YOu're posting old news. Qualcomm already announced new
complaint chipsets
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0262822220080102
I hope they're new chipsets are not complaint chipsets!
They're announced, but not available yet. It'll take a while for the
chips to be manufactured, then designed into phones. It could easily
take six months to see products with the new chips.
Broadcom will likely claim that the new chips still violate their patents.
More reason to wait for the Google phone and the results of the analog
TV bandwidth auctions. Don't buy a new phone this year !!
Nah the iPhone is some much sheer fun you will miss out on a year of
great stuff. Just sell it and get your money back when something
better arrives.
There is a fundamental flaw in your premise.
The second that a 3G iPhone hits the market, EVERY EDGE iPhone
immediately depreciates dramatically. Maybe not zero, but damn near.
It is what I call a bad investment. Now, if you can afford buying toys and
can afford buying another one in a year or so, then go for it...
Larry
2008-01-06 05:36:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ness-Net
EVERY EDGE iPhone
immediately depreciates dramatically. Maybe not zero, but damn near.
Ebay will be flooded...(c;

Why would Apple be so stupid as to make their customer base ANGRY at losing
$600 or $500 or $400 in a few months? It's stupid.

Upgraded the whole Nokia N800 Linux tablet to the new OS2008, tonight.
Took the plunge...(c; I may have gone overboard loading programs. It
needs a 750GB hard drive...(c; The new map function is downloading 733MB
of USA East maps, as I type this. They integrated a talking mapware right
into the new OS2008 and GAVE IT TO US! Way cool....



Larry
--
Next time some broker tells you what a great investment he's selling,
ask him about Rhodium, a shiny metal used in Catalytic Converters.
Jan 1st 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
Rhodium $452 $1341 $3006 $5339 $6775 PER OUNCE!
How much longer can we pay for new cars at this rate?
Feb '97 it was $182/oz
Bill Kearney
2008-01-06 17:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
Why would Apple be so stupid as to make their customer base ANGRY at losing
$600 or $500 or $400 in a few months? It's stupid.
Apple is famous for screwing their exising bleeding edge customers. Why
would they be any different this time? The Apple fanboys are so fucking
stupid. They'll probably come up with some silly ass rationalization about
how they were "helping" the company by going along with it. Cripes, it's
practically the Stockholm syndrome.
IMHO IIRC
2008-01-06 18:44:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Kearney
Post by Larry
Why would Apple be so stupid as to make their customer base ANGRY at losing
$600 or $500 or $400 in a few months? It's stupid.
Apple is famous for screwing their exising bleeding edge customers. Why
would they be any different this time? The Apple fanboys are so fucking
stupid. They'll probably come up with some silly ass rationalization
about how they were "helping" the company by going along with it. Cripes,
it's practically the Stockholm syndrome.
They believe everything Steve Jobs says since he knows best.
Larry
2008-01-07 00:05:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by IMHO IIRC
They believe everything Steve Jobs says since he knows best.
That can't be true because Billy Gates has more of nearly everything.....
(c;

Apple is proof that Micro$oft isn't trying to conquer the world....(c;
I think Apple amuses them.

Larry
--
As the price of Monopoly money rises, at some point it will equal
Federal Reserve Private Bank fake banknotes in value!
clifto
2008-01-06 20:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Kearney
Post by Larry
Why would Apple be so stupid as to make their customer base ANGRY at losing
$600 or $500 or $400 in a few months? It's stupid.
Apple is famous for screwing their exising bleeding edge customers. Why
would they be any different this time? The Apple fanboys are so fucking
stupid. They'll probably come up with some silly ass rationalization about
how they were "helping" the company by going along with it. Cripes, it's
practically the Stockholm syndrome.
As I recall, it was a mark of honor to have paid $10,000 for a Lisa and
then to have gotten the letter (and pin) telling you that the computer
they would henceforth be developing software for only cost $5,000.
--
Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali,
Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause
as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.
SMS
2008-01-06 19:58:48 UTC
Permalink
Ness-Net wrote:

<snip>
Post by Ness-Net
There is a fundamental flaw in your premise.
The second that a 3G iPhone hits the market, EVERY EDGE iPhone
immediately depreciates dramatically. Maybe not zero, but damn near.
It is what I call a bad investment. Now, if you can afford buying toys and
can afford buying another one in a year or so, then go for it...
First of all, don't assume that the 3G iPhone means no more EDGE
iPhones. The monthly pricing on the 3G model will likely be higher, or
you'll be able to have your choice of 3G or EDGE service at different
price points. It isn't corporations buying iPhones, it's individuals
that may be happy paying $20 less per month and having the lower speed.

Second, the judges ruling will delay the 3G iPhone in the U.S., as
Qualcomm cannot sell their current chip design, and the cycle time to
get new silicon into devices is long to very long, depending on how many
revisions of silicon they need to go through. By the time the 3G iPhone
hits stores, it'll be a year since the first model.

Third, company's really can't be too concerned that their newer products
will hurt the resale value of their older products, nor do most
purchasers expect the company to stop introducing new products.

Fourth, the current iPhone buyers purchased their iPhones knowing full
well that a 3G model would be introduced, they just didn't know when.
Very few will be really mad about it.

Finally, there's a tendency to dismiss all iPhone buyers as morons,
based on Usenet posts in CSMA or the alt.cellular groups. It gives a
really warped picture of the average iPhone user, who would be aghast
and angry to be equated with the fanboys that post on Usenet. They knew
the feature limitations when they bought it, and they're not spending
time rationalizing the missing pieces. It's not a phone I would buy for
a host of reasons, but those I know that them are happy with them for
the most part. The biggest complaint is not the lack of 3G, it's the
lack of voice-dialing.
Larry
2008-01-07 01:23:19 UTC
Permalink
I'm the guy who wrote the "Liveaboard Simulator" for people thinking of
moving their families aboard a sailboat to live. Google it and you'll find
it in a lot of places. I never dreamed it would still be there years
later.

In that same "simulator" idea, when someone asks me what I think of these
big PDA phones or WebTV appliances like iPhone or Voyager, I tell them
before they buy they need to try my "WebTV Phone Simulator" before making
such a mistake and being stuck with it, besides being laughed at in public
which is embarrassing.

So, Here is:
The Pocket WebTV SELLphone Simulator

Before making a mistake and buying that big-screened WebTV appliance
they've all been hyping on TV, internet and in the Bigboy Toy Stores, pick
out the one you think you want to buy and go to its specification webpage
such as:
iPhone:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html
Verizon Voyager:
http://www.voyager10000.com/
search Google for "iPhone clones" to find the others...

Now, note the physical dimensions and weight of your choice:
iPhone:
Size and weight
* Height: 4.5 inches (115 mm)
* Width: 2.4 inches (61 mm)
* Depth: 0.46 inch (11.6 mm)
* Weight: 4.8 ounces (135 grams)

Voyager:
Weight - 4.69oz
Dimensions - 4.64 x 2.12 x 0.71"

(You hunt for your particular choices physics.)

Now, find a little clear plastic box as near to those dimensions as you
can. If you beg a little at a jewelry store, they'll probably give you one
just to get rid of you fast, if you promise to never come back in those
clothes.

If you don't have a letter scale, take the box and some coins or washers to
the post office where they have really calibrated small scales right out
where you can use them. Put the box on the scale and keep adding coins or
washers until you come up to the new phone's weight. A little superglue
setting up overnight on the coins EVENLY DISTRIBUTED inside the plastic box
will provide the simulated weight.

Now that we have a faux fone for "testing", and the washers inside aren't
rattling around attracting attention, clean off the "front" of your new
fauxfone 5000 really good because that is going to be part of the
test....keeping the screen clean while using it as a phone up against your
sweaty cheeks. More on that later. We're ready to start the simulator to
see how we like it.

We'll start by carrying around the fauxfone every place you carry around
your current SELLphone, in the pocket you always carry the SELLphone in.
Move the real SELLphone to another pocket during the simulation, so you can
see how the new WebTVfone is going to feel and fit in your favorite pocket.
If you currently wear your tiny SELLphone on a hip carrier on or in a nice
carrying case on your belt, you can put that out of your mind and leave the
SELLphone in its carrier. You won't be carrying an iPhone, with its large-
target, fragile touchscreen, banging into the desks/copier/file
cabinets/steering wheel/door frames/seat belt buckles/etc. for long before
it's destroyed. These gadgets cannot take that kind of daily punishment.
If you doubt this, superglue an old belt clip onto the back of the
simulator box and carry it on your hip, putting the SELLphone in a pocket
all week. See if the "screen" on the plastic box gets "scratched" or
gouged while in simulation. This will also discourage you when you "feel"
this huge box every time you jam it into your ribs upon entering your car
or dropping into your favorite easy chair. The corners of an iPhone are
more rounded than the simulator box...but not THAT much more.

Simple rules for simulation....

Every time you phone rings, answer it as you always do. Estimate how long
you held it to your ear while being bitched out for your current
infractions by "her" (in attack mode, which differs from simulator mode).
When you hang up the little SELLphone and put it away, fish out the
simulator box and put it to your ear, screen against your cheek, for
approximately the same time as the real phone call. (You may, of course,
delay doing this when the simulation might get you fired or divorced or
sent to the drunk tank, but make the simulated "call" as soon as practical,
once you're not standing in front of your boss' desk or "her" punishment
area. If more calls come in too quick to use the simulator box, ADD the
TOTAL TIME and simulate as soon as you can, even if it inconveniences you.
(Noone can see you holding a stupid plastic box to your ear in a bathroom
stall. You're stuck in there for some time, make good use of it dropping
the stacked up simulator time slots.)

Every time you need to make a call, look closely at the simulator "screen"
you'll be dialing on or at least looking at to see what you're dialing. At
some point, even the most sedate of us is gonna grease up that "screen" to
the point it needs more cleaning. It's inevitable! Clean it when it needs
it, noting how this changes your day. Hold the box to your face and make
the call right after you get off the phone, just like you did receiving
calls.

Again, it's a good idea to be in discrete in simulation and not let
important people see you "testing"....unless, of course, you notice OTHERS
in simulation mode carrying around plastic boxes with washers glued into
them! If you find other simulatees, you both should compare notes and
share simulator stories, including simulator construction plans which lend
themselves to field improvements for more realism.

OK, Day 1 is over and you're home. As you put your SELLphone down on the
computer desk, lay down the simulator next to it with ONE LITTLE
EXCEPTION.... WebTVfones being played with EAT BATTERIES during the day
and MUST be recharged or we're not going to have SELLphone service tomorrow
afternoon. Dig out an old AC power brick you used to charge the old flip
phone with and lay it near an outlet by your desk. (No need to plug it in
as simulators are "self-recharging" and last forever.) Lay the simulator
on top of the phone end of its cable to simulate PLUGGING THIS BATTERY HOG
INTO THE GRID EVERY NIGHT.

Ok, we'll let you run in simulator for a couple of weeks until the next big
price retraction and inevitable rebate scheme on the one you want. If you
still want it and save a hundred bucks because of my simulator holding you
back a couple of weeks, you'll think of me every time you power up the
accessory you bought with the extra hundred bucks to go with it.

Two Week Review.....

OK, two weeks have passed....

Question: Do you want to carry around the plastic box every place you need
a SELLphone for the next TWO years of your contract?

Question: Do you think the plastic box would last 2 years, looking at all
the gouges and scratches on the plastic box's simulated screen after only
two weeks?

Question: Did you stomp and dump the plastic box in the trash any time
during the last two weeks when it pissed you off sticking you in the gut or
gouging the end of your nipples?

Question: Did anyone poke fun at you, directly, or seem to point and laugh
in a public place just because you had an iPhone-sized plastic box to your
face walking down the ramp?

These questions should help you make your own decision about the neat new
WebTVfone you had in mind.....no matter who made it.

WAIT! Before rushing out waving that credit card, spend WEEK 3 carrying
around JUST your trusty old flip or candy bar in that favorite pocket.
Make the decision ONE WEEK AFTER passing on this simulator and your
simulator box, if it survives, to the NEXT googly-eyed buyer you know.


Larry
--
NO IMPULSE BUYING YOU'LL REGRET FOR TWO YEARS!
-= Hawk =-
2008-01-07 08:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
SELLphone
The above idiocy negates any inherent usefulness of your post. You make
yourself look like a moron.
Larry
2008-01-07 22:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by -= Hawk =-
Post by Larry
SELLphone
The above idiocy negates any inherent usefulness of your post. You make
yourself look like a moron.
Why? Because you do not like its truth?

Larry
--
As the price of Monopoly money rises, at some point it will equal
Federal Reserve Private Bank fake banknotes in value!
-= Hawk =-
2008-01-08 02:53:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
Post by -= Hawk =-
Post by Larry
SELLphone
The above idiocy negates any inherent usefulness of your post. You
make
Post by -= Hawk =-
yourself look like a moron.
Why? Because you do not like its truth?
Why? Because you're trying to foist off some moronic catchphrase you
think is cute and clever but in all honesty makes you look even more
like an imbecile.
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2008-01-08 04:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by -= Hawk =-
Post by Larry
Post by -= Hawk =-
Post by Larry
SELLphone
The above idiocy negates any inherent usefulness of your post. You
make
Post by -= Hawk =-
yourself look like a moron.
Why? Because you do not like its truth?
Why? Because you're trying to foist off some moronic catchphrase you
think is cute and clever but in all honesty makes you look even more
like an imbecile.
Maybe Larry is BUYsexual.
Larry
2008-01-08 05:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by -= Hawk =-
Why? Because you're trying to foist off some moronic catchphrase you
think is cute and clever but in all honesty makes you look even more
like an imbecile.
First off, you must understand I don't give a shit if you like it or
not.....

So, your choice is to simply killfile me, putting you out of your misery.

As Billy Connoly puts it, "Fuck Off!"....(c;

They are SELLphones. If they weren't, they would be hobbled, disabled and
the smartphones would be smartphones, actually running programs....like
your laptop does, without the company bureaucrats' permissions.

The term is very accurate. Ask any Verizon customer.

Larry
--
As the price of Monopoly money rises, at some point it will equal
Federal Reserve Private Bank fake banknotes in value!
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2008-01-08 05:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
First off, you must understand I don't give a shit if you like it or
not.....
Which is why you live in these newsgroups, right?
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2008-01-08 05:43:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
They are SELLphones. If they weren't, they would be hobbled, disabled and
the smartphones would be smartphones, actually running programs....like
your laptop does, without the company bureaucrats' permissions.
The term is very accurate. Ask any Verizon customer.
Very INaccurate. Ask any AT&T, T-Mobile, or Sprint customer.

When will you acknowledge that your VERY LIMITED experience in the world
has nothing to do with reality?
Steve Sobol
2008-01-08 05:45:03 UTC
Permalink
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.cellular.verizon.]
Post by Larry
So, your choice is to simply killfile me, putting you out of your misery.
As Billy Connoly puts it, "Fuck Off!"....(c;
One thing you haven't addressed is that you use some of the same services that,
when someone else talks about using them, you make them sound like dumbasses.

You can't have it both ways.
Post by Larry
The term is very accurate. Ask any Verizon customer.
As pointed out to you countless times, Verizon is the worst in this respect
and is not representative of the entire industry.
--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol
-= Hawk =-
2008-01-08 10:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
Post by -= Hawk =-
Why? Because you're trying to foist off some moronic catchphrase you
think is cute and clever but in all honesty makes you look even more
like an imbecile.
First off, you must understand I don't give a shit if you like it or
not.....
If you don't give a shit what keeps you coming back to my posts?
Post by Larry
So, your choice is to simply killfile me, putting you out of your misery.
Or I could keep making fun of you and see what funny dances you'll do.
Post by Larry
As Billy Connoly puts it, "Fuck Off!"....(c;
They are SELLphones. If they weren't, they would be hobbled, disabled and
Only in your pea sized brain.
Post by Larry
the smartphones would be smartphones, actually running programs....like
your laptop does, without the company bureaucrats' permissions.
If everything were the way it should be across the planet there'd still
be some loser like you with something to whine about or some agenda he
thinks other people give a shit for.
Post by Larry
The term is very accurate. Ask any Verizon customer.
It, as I said, makes you look like a moron.

Now, I'm bored, polka for me, fucker.
digi
2008-01-07 14:59:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMS
<snip>
Post by Ness-Net
There is a fundamental flaw in your premise.
The second that a 3G iPhone hits the market, EVERY EDGE iPhone
immediately depreciates dramatically.
Yeah, even though cell phones are notorious for depreciation, the
iPhone will be the execption to the rule because its so cool?
Post by SMS
First of all, don't assume that the 3G iPhone means no more EDGE
iPhones.
Youre right! they will probably keep it around much like they did the
4 gb iPhone. You know how they like to give customers choice!
Post by SMS
The monthly pricing on the 3G model will likely be higher, or
you'll be able to have your choice of 3G or EDGE service at different
price points.
So does this mean ATT has to give SJ even more money per month now?
Post by SMS
It isn't corporations buying iPhones, it's individuals
that may be happy paying $20 less per month and having the lower speed.
Right here, your making my next point for me! tia!
Post by SMS
Fourth, the current iPhone buyers purchased their iPhones knowing full
well that a 3G model would be introduced, they just didn't know when.
Very few will be really mad about it.
The majority of current iPhone users DO NOT KNOW WHAT 3G is, much less
know that the iPhone doesnt have it, and that is why they wont be mad
about it. The majority of people in general, were told the iPhone was
246 devices in one, and hence beleive that it does EVERYTHING.
Post by SMS
Finally, there's a tendency to dismiss all iPhone buyers as morons,.
based on Usenet posts in CSMA or the alt.cellular groups. It gives a
really warped picture of the average iPhone user, who would be aghast
and angry to be equated with the fanboys that post on Usenet. They knew
the feature limitations when they bought it, and they're not spending
time rationalizing the missing pieces. It's not a phone I would buy for
a host of reasons, but those I know that them are happy with them for
the most part. The biggest complaint is not the lack of 3G, it's the
lack of voice-dialing.
Just because the fanboys here are morons, doesnt make the normal
iPhone users any less of morons. Atleast the fanboys know the device
has weak points and are just able to spin it to work in their favor.
The real deal average joe iPhone user doesnt even know about these
shortcomings. There are three classes of iPhone users it seems, the
fanboys which we see here all the time, we all know their level of
intelligence. Then there is the blissful idiot iPhone user, who think
they are part of some special clique because they use Apple products.
These users are not technically motivated, think their phone does
everything, and really have no idea the real features available on a
modern day cell phone. These are also the users who own a macbook, and
brag about how great it is to make movies on a mac, even though they
have never once even had spark of thought in their simple mind that
could ever be stretched into a film. Then there is the remorseful
buyer iPhone user, who now knows all too well that he was robbed, not
only of his hard earned cash on crippled, old, over-hyped technology,
but also of his dignity because he was totally suckered.
SMS
2008-01-07 16:26:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by digi
Post by SMS
<snip>
Post by Ness-Net
There is a fundamental flaw in your premise.
The second that a 3G iPhone hits the market, EVERY EDGE iPhone
immediately depreciates dramatically.
Yeah, even though cell phones are notorious for depreciation, the
iPhone will be the execption to the rule because its so cool?
Post by SMS
First of all, don't assume that the 3G iPhone means no more EDGE
iPhones.
Youre right! they will probably keep it around much like they did the
4 gb iPhone. You know how they like to give customers choice!
Post by SMS
The monthly pricing on the 3G model will likely be higher, or
you'll be able to have your choice of 3G or EDGE service at different
price points.
So does this mean ATT has to give SJ even more money per month now?
Post by SMS
It isn't corporations buying iPhones, it's individuals
that may be happy paying $20 less per month and having the lower speed.
Right here, your making my next point for me! tia!
Post by SMS
Fourth, the current iPhone buyers purchased their iPhones knowing full
well that a 3G model would be introduced, they just didn't know when.
Very few will be really mad about it.
The majority of current iPhone users DO NOT KNOW WHAT 3G is, much less
know that the iPhone doesnt have it, and that is why they wont be mad
about it. The majority of people in general, were told the iPhone was
246 devices in one, and hence beleive that it does EVERYTHING.
However the reason that it's selling poorly in Europe is because of the
lack of 3G. So at least in some parts of the world people do know what
3G is. Part of the reason it is selling poorly in Europe is because in
some areas without EDGE it's on GPRS, so users are even more aware of
the speed issues than in the U.S..
Post by digi
The real deal average joe iPhone user doesnt even know about these
shortcomings. There are three classes of iPhone users it seems, the
fanboys which we see here all the time, we all know their level of
intelligence. Then there is the blissful idiot iPhone user, who think
they are part of some special clique because they use Apple products.
These users are not technically motivated, think their phone does
everything, and really have no idea the real features available on a
modern day cell phone. These are also the users who own a macbook, and
brag about how great it is to make movies on a mac, even though they
have never once even had spark of thought in their simple mind that
could ever be stretched into a film. Then there is the remorseful
buyer iPhone user, who now knows all too well that he was robbed, not
only of his hard earned cash on crippled, old, over-hyped technology,
but also of his dignity because he was totally suckered.
Then there are the ones that wanted a WiFi web browser, iPod, and quad
band phone all in one, and didn't think that $400 was an outrageous
price to pay, and that rarely does EDGE web browsing, but that does use
it to check e-mail. They may not know what 3G is, but they probably
wouldn't pay more each month for it even if they did know.

To me, the most glaring problem with the iPhone is that you can't
legally use it while driving in three states (NY, NJ, & CT), and
starting July 1, 2008 add CA and WA to the list. Many Asian and European
countries also don't allow its use while driving.
rlsusenet@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp.org
2008-01-07 17:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMS
To me, the most glaring problem with the iPhone is that you can't
legally use it while driving in three states (NY, NJ, & CT), and
starting July 1, 2008 add CA and WA to the list. Many Asian and European
countries also don't allow its use while driving.
Interesting.

I would say that the overpriced and underpowered net connection (as
compared to Sprint) was the most glaring problem with the iPhone. I
_won_ an iPhone from a local TV station contest this year, and despite
my long-time devotion to the Palm platform (I've carried a Palm-based
device for 9 years), I would have kept that iPhone if I could have
activated it on Sprint under EVDO. Instead, I sold it on eBay.

As for hands-free usage, I'm not sure what you're talking about: The
iPhone (like my Treo 700P) has Bluetooth support. Nearly all phones
support hands-free usage compatible with the new laws -- via BT handsets
and automotive hands-free systems. How is the iPhone any different?
SMS
2008-01-08 17:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp.org
Post by SMS
To me, the most glaring problem with the iPhone is that you can't
legally use it while driving in three states (NY, NJ, & CT), and
starting July 1, 2008 add CA and WA to the list. Many Asian and
European countries also don't allow its use while driving.
Interesting.
I would say that the overpriced and underpowered net connection (as
compared to Sprint) was the most glaring problem with the iPhone. I
_won_ an iPhone from a local TV station contest this year, and despite
my long-time devotion to the Palm platform (I've carried a Palm-based
device for 9 years), I would have kept that iPhone if I could have
activated it on Sprint under EVDO. Instead, I sold it on eBay.
Certainly anyone that cared about the speed of the web experience would
not buy an iPhone, that's true. I think that many buyers either a) don't
understand what 3G is, b) didn't care because they were mainly using it
as a phone and iPod, c) didn't care because they were going to use it
mainly on WiFi, d) figured that it came from Apple it must be g-d's gift
to the wireless industry and as religious people they had to buy it, e)
didn't realize that they could get high speed data from Verizon or
Sprint, f) didn't want to pay for 3G speeds and were happy with the
lower price point for 2G,...
Post by ***@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp.org
As for hands-free usage, I'm not sure what you're talking about: The
iPhone (like my Treo 700P) has Bluetooth support. Nearly all phones
support hands-free usage compatible with the new laws -- via BT handsets
and automotive hands-free systems. How is the iPhone any different?
There is no voice dialing. You can legally answer calls while driving,
but you can't legally make calls while driving (in places that require
hands free).
Richard B. Gilbert
2008-01-07 18:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMS
Post by SMS
<snip>
Post by Ness-Net
There is a fundamental flaw in your premise.
The second that a 3G iPhone hits the market, EVERY EDGE iPhone
immediately depreciates dramatically.
<snip>
Post by SMS
To me, the most glaring problem with the iPhone is that you can't
legally use it while driving in three states (NY, NJ, & CT), and
starting July 1, 2008 add CA and WA to the list. Many Asian and European
countries also don't allow its use while driving.
At least in New Jersey the law applies to ANY hand held phone!

A lot of people seem to have responded by getting a "Bluetooth" device
to hang in their ear! A little silly looking and probably still not a
good idea while driving. . . . Not that it's going to stop some people
. . . .
SMS
2008-01-07 22:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMS
Post by SMS
Post by SMS
<snip>
Post by Ness-Net
There is a fundamental flaw in your premise.
The second that a 3G iPhone hits the market, EVERY EDGE iPhone
immediately depreciates dramatically.
<snip>
Post by SMS
To me, the most glaring problem with the iPhone is that you can't
legally use it while driving in three states (NY, NJ, & CT), and
starting July 1, 2008 add CA and WA to the list. Many Asian and
European countries also don't allow its use while driving.
At least in New Jersey the law applies to ANY hand held phone!
Right, but the iPhone can't be used without holding it to key in the
phone number. You can receive calls while driving, but not make them, at
least not legally in the states that don't allow holding the handset
while driving.

Every other current phone on the market included voice dialing (at least
I could not find a single current model other than the iPhone that
doesn't have it). Entering a number while driving, having to take your
eyes off the road to concentrate on the phone, is very dangerous, and
it's great that more states are beginning to ban it.

I think that Apple will eventually come up with a software upgrade for
voice dialing, or at least include it on the next revision of the iPhone.
Post by SMS
A lot of people seem to have responded by getting a "Bluetooth" device
to hang in their ear! A little silly looking and probably still not a
good idea while driving. . . . Not that it's going to stop some people
It's a little better. While conversing while driving is distracting, the
most distracting part of the call is having to dial the number if you
aren't voice name dialing or voice digit dialing.
Richard B. Gilbert
2008-01-08 04:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMS
Post by SMS
Post by SMS
Post by SMS
<snip>
Post by Ness-Net
There is a fundamental flaw in your premise.
The second that a 3G iPhone hits the market, EVERY EDGE iPhone
immediately depreciates dramatically.
<snip>
Post by SMS
To me, the most glaring problem with the iPhone is that you can't
legally use it while driving in three states (NY, NJ, & CT), and
starting July 1, 2008 add CA and WA to the list. Many Asian and
European countries also don't allow its use while driving.
At least in New Jersey the law applies to ANY hand held phone!
Right, but the iPhone can't be used without holding it to key in the
phone number. You can receive calls while driving, but not make them, at
least not legally in the states that don't allow holding the handset
while driving.
Every other current phone on the market included voice dialing (at least
I could not find a single current model other than the iPhone that
doesn't have it). Entering a number while driving, having to take your
eyes off the road to concentrate on the phone, is very dangerous, and
it's great that more states are beginning to ban it.
I think that Apple will eventually come up with a software upgrade for
voice dialing, or at least include it on the next revision of the iPhone.
Post by SMS
A lot of people seem to have responded by getting a "Bluetooth" device
to hang in their ear! A little silly looking and probably still not a
good idea while driving. . . . Not that it's going to stop some people
It's a little better. While conversing while driving is distracting, the
most distracting part of the call is having to dial the number if you
aren't voice name dialing or voice digit dialing.
Speach recognition (voice command, voice dialing) is a great idea.
Making it work, work reliably, and making it work for everyone, seems to
be beyond the capabilties of some cell phone manufacturers! My Motorola
RAZR V3m is supposed to accept voice commands and do voice dialing.
Maybe it does for some people but it doesn't work for me. I can say
"check status" twenty or thirty times before the phone finally
recognizes it. In fact, the command "check status", when I say it,
frequently results in my phone starting to dial my next door neighbor!!!

YMMV.
clifto
2008-01-08 14:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
Speach recognition (voice command, voice dialing) is a great idea.
Making it work, work reliably, and making it work for everyone, seems to
be beyond the capabilties of some cell phone manufacturers! My Motorola
RAZR V3m is supposed to accept voice commands and do voice dialing.
Maybe it does for some people but it doesn't work for me. I can say
"check status" twenty or thirty times before the phone finally
recognizes it. In fact, the command "check status", when I say it,
frequently results in my phone starting to dial my next door neighbor!!!
Try speaking in a higher pitch.
--
"I am for socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the state
itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I seek social ownership of
property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control by those who
produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -- Roger Baldwin, founder, ACLU
Richard B. Gilbert
2008-01-08 15:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by clifto
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
Speach recognition (voice command, voice dialing) is a great idea.
Making it work, work reliably, and making it work for everyone, seems to
be beyond the capabilties of some cell phone manufacturers! My Motorola
RAZR V3m is supposed to accept voice commands and do voice dialing.
Maybe it does for some people but it doesn't work for me. I can say
"check status" twenty or thirty times before the phone finally
recognizes it. In fact, the command "check status", when I say it,
frequently results in my phone starting to dial my next door neighbor!!!
Try speaking in a higher pitch.
My vocal range is one note short of an octave! I don't have a whole lot
of choice!
clifto
2008-01-08 23:48:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
Post by clifto
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
Speach recognition (voice command, voice dialing) is a great idea.
Making it work, work reliably, and making it work for everyone, seems to
be beyond the capabilties of some cell phone manufacturers! My Motorola
RAZR V3m is supposed to accept voice commands and do voice dialing.
Maybe it does for some people but it doesn't work for me. I can say
"check status" twenty or thirty times before the phone finally
recognizes it. In fact, the command "check status", when I say it,
frequently results in my phone starting to dial my next door neighbor!!!
Try speaking in a higher pitch.
My vocal range is one note short of an octave! I don't have a whole lot
of choice!
Mine isn't much greater after radiation treatment (successful) for throat
cancer. But often when the phone can't understand me, I can raise pitch
enough to make a big difference.
--
"I am for socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the state
itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I seek social ownership of
property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control by those who
produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -- Roger Baldwin, founder, ACLU
SMS
2008-01-08 14:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

<snip>
Post by Richard B. Gilbert
Speach recognition (voice command, voice dialing) is a great idea.
Making it work, work reliably, and making it work for everyone, seems to
be beyond the capabilties of some cell phone manufacturers! My Motorola
RAZR V3m is supposed to accept voice commands and do voice dialing.
Maybe it does for some people but it doesn't work for me. I can say
"check status" twenty or thirty times before the phone finally
recognizes it. In fact, the command "check status", when I say it,
frequently results in my phone starting to dial my next door neighbor!!!
Yeah, sometimes the voice recognition works perfectly on my V325i,
sometimes I get so frustrated with it than when it says "Say a Command"
I respond with "you suck." What does work reliably is "digit dial" and
"redial." Sometimes when I say "name dial" it redials. Sometimes when it
recognizes the name and there are multiple phone numbers and it says
"which number?" it doesn't recognize the answer and comes back with "no
match found." The older voice-dialing system which required that you
train the phone with the name and your voice worked much better than the
current Motorola technology.

I think that Apple probably wanted voice-dialing on the iPhone but
either a) couldn't find someone to license the firmware to them, b)
tried to do it themselves but couldn't get it working in time for the
iPhone release, or c) ran into some legal issues with patents on the
technology. I can't imagine that they won't have it in the next revision.
clifto
2008-01-08 14:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by SMS
Yeah, sometimes the voice recognition works perfectly on my V325i,
sometimes I get so frustrated with it than when it says "Say a Command"
I respond with "you suck." What does work reliably is "digit dial" and
"redial." Sometimes when I say "name dial" it redials.
Try just "name".
Post by SMS
Sometimes when it
recognizes the name and there are multiple phone numbers and it says
"which number?" it doesn't recognize the answer and comes back with "no
match found."
I have never gotten that. My V710 is even smart enough to recognize "cell"
to mean "mobile".
Post by SMS
The older voice-dialing system which required that you
train the phone with the name and your voice worked much better than the
current Motorola technology.
I think that Apple probably wanted voice-dialing on the iPhone but
either a) couldn't find someone to license the firmware to them, b)
tried to do it themselves but couldn't get it working in time for the
iPhone release, or c) ran into some legal issues with patents on the
technology. I can't imagine that they won't have it in the next revision.
Or (d) remembers a certain Dilbert cartoon about handwriting recognition
on the Newton that included the words "weave me a cone you cupid bat".
--
"I am for socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the state
itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I seek social ownership of
property, the abolition of the propertied class, and sole control by those who
produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -- Roger Baldwin, founder, ACLU
SMS
2008-01-08 16:54:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by clifto
Post by SMS
Yeah, sometimes the voice recognition works perfectly on my V325i,
sometimes I get so frustrated with it than when it says "Say a Command"
I respond with "you suck." What does work reliably is "digit dial" and
"redial." Sometimes when I say "name dial" it redials.
Try just "name".
Yes, that's a good idea. That won't confuse it between name dial and
redial. I tried it and it works.
Post by clifto
Post by SMS
Sometimes when it
recognizes the name and there are multiple phone numbers and it says
"which number?" it doesn't recognize the answer and comes back with "no
match found."
I have never gotten that. My V710 is even smart enough to recognize "cell"
to mean "mobile".
That didn't work on the V325i.


Yeah, though current handwriting recognition, such as what Microsoft has
in XP Tablet Edition, is excellent.

Steve
John Navas
2008-01-08 20:42:29 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 02:23:15 -0800, SMS ???• ?
Post by SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
"U.S. District Judge James Selna issued the ruling Monday, the latest in
a series of legal victories Broadcom scored over Qualcomm last year
related to rights to technology for cell phones. The three patented
chips use WCDMA technology, a small but fast-growing part of the
wireless market used mostly in American T-Mobile and AT&T phones.
Selna ruled that Qualcomm can continue to sell other disputed chips in
the United States until January 2009, but must pay royalties on those
chips, which use a different technology called EVDO and are used on
Verizon and Sprint networks in America. He also allowed Qualcomm to use
a patented Broadcom walkie-talkie technology until January 2009."
Broadcom and Qualcomm must be very far apart on settling. Reminds me of
the whole RIM mess last year, but they settled eventually, as everyone
predicted.
In fact the settlement was far outside of normal settlement territory,
and not what "everyone predicted".
Post by SMS 斯蒂文• 夏
This whole patent dispute is one reason that W-CDMA didn't make it into
the iPhone.
That last is even more patent nonsense. W-CDMA chips are readily
available from other sources. The primary real reasons is almost
certainly power consumption of the available chips.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
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