Verizon iPhone versus Verizon Android devices

Post by SMS
Having had a Droid for all of five days, the Verizon iPhone is going to
be a huge hit.
3. Micro USB charger port. It's so much flimsier than the Mini USB port
on my other phones, and flimsier than the iPod dock/charging connector.

This is the new standard, even on iphone

Btw, The good news for iPhone users has always been that the connector that's used to recharge the device is the same one used for some Apple iPods. But annoyingly many iPod docking stations and accessories made by third parties for previous generations of iPods don't work with the iPhone.

Read more: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-10165603-78.html#ixzz1AkPLqgIp

Steve Sobol

2011-01-11 18:53:23 UTC

Post by SMS
2. No IPSEC VPN. This is a very big issue. Enterprises are not

allowing

This is a big deal. Is Android 2.3 going to offer it?

Post by SMS
3. Micro USB charger port. It's so much flimsier than the Mini USB port

Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

SMS

2011-01-11 19:08:43 UTC

Post by SMS
2. No IPSEC VPN. This is a very big issue. Enterprises are not

allowing
This is a big deal. Is Android 2.3 going to offer it?

Post by SMS
3. Micro USB charger port. It's so much flimsier than the Mini USB

port
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

Except there are so many after-market accessories for the iPhone that
they're just as cheap as "standard stuff." Or included with devices,
i.e. the replacement stereo I purchased for a vehicle included an iPod
cable for charging and audio, but if you want to use the Droid with it
you buy one MicroUSB charging cable, and one audio cable, and plug the
audio cable into the amplified headphone jack, rather than using the
line-out audio like on the iPhone.

Steve Sobol

2011-01-11 20:42:02 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

Except there are so many after-market accessories for the iPhone that
they're just as cheap as "standard stuff."

So? The point is, they're non-standard.

And Apple pulls crap like that because they know they can get away with
it. Just like Nokia used to -- although I think Nokia's finally stopped.

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

SMS

2011-01-11 21:28:05 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

Except there are so many after-market accessories for the iPhone that
they're just as cheap as "standard stuff."

So? The point is, they're non-standard.
And Apple pulls crap like that because they know they can get away with
it.

But Apple's not making money from those aftermarket accessories. There
was no standard that Apple could follow for a dock, they had to create
it themselves. Would you have expected them to include RCA jacks for
audio and composite video, an S-Video jack, a USB port, etc.? No room.

Android devices have a USB port (well some newer ones are putting mini
HDMI ports on them. This severely limits the accessory choice.

Steve Sobol

2011-01-12 00:39:47 UTC

Post by SMS
Android devices have a USB port (well some newer ones are putting mini
HDMI ports on them. This severely limits the accessory choice.

I'd love if my MyTouch had an HDMI jack. My mother's Droid X does.

Anyhow, I fail to see how choosing an industry-standard connector LIMITS
choices. It's the other way around. The iPhone is the exception, but
that's because the iPhone accessory market is mature and there are
gazillions of iPhone users.

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

DevilsPGD

2011-01-12 04:47:00 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Anyhow, I fail to see how choosing an industry-standard connector LIMITS
choices. It's the other way around. The iPhone is the exception, but
that's because the iPhone accessory market is mature and there are
gazillions of iPhone users.

It limits the /manufacturer/ in terms of what features they can design
in. It doesn't limit the user, at least in most cases.

Steve Sobol

2011-01-12 06:18:47 UTC

It limits the /manufacturer/ in terms of what features they can design
in. It doesn't limit the user, at least in most cases.

Exactly.

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

DevilsPGD

2011-01-12 01:12:46 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

Except there are so many after-market accessories for the iPhone that
they're just as cheap as "standard stuff."

So? The point is, they're non-standard.
And Apple pulls crap like that because they know they can get away with
it.

But Apple's not making money from those aftermarket accessories.

You do need to be licensed to use the dock connector and Apple has sued
violators in the past.

From what I know a fee is charged but it's difficult to tell for sure,
you have to provide contact information to inquire further.

Fred

2011-01-12 05:59:55 UTC

Post by SMS
But Apple's not making money from those aftermarket accessories.

I bet that's not true. Everything with that damned dock connector on it is
quite a bit more expensive than similar stuff without it. I bet Apple gets
a license fee for every dock connector that's sold.

nospam

2011-01-12 10:22:23 UTC

Post by Fred

Post by SMS
But Apple's not making money from those aftermarket accessories.

examples? oh right, you don't have any.

DevilsPGD

2011-01-12 11:35:21 UTC

Post by Fred

Post by SMS
But Apple's not making money from those aftermarket accessories.

examples? oh right, you don't have any.

And you won't, since Apple requires you to sign an NDA before you
negotiate on pricing.

nospam

2011-01-12 14:32:00 UTC

Post by SMS
But Apple's not making money from those aftermarket accessories.

examples? oh right, you don't have any.

And you won't, since Apple requires you to sign an NDA before you
negotiate on pricing.

sure, but i wasn't asking about that.

he said products with the connector are 'quite a bit more expensive'
than without. which ones, specifically?

SMS

2011-01-12 18:54:50 UTC

Post by nospam
he said products with the connector are 'quite a bit more expensive'
than without. which ones, specifically?

In fact, the Apple chargers and docking cables for the iPod Touch and
iPhone are so inexpensive that I wouldn't doubt if many users are like
me and have extras in each car and in their laptop bag, in addition to
the included charger and the chargers on any speaker docks.

<http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.37894>. $4.83, including
shipping for a 3-in-1 USB Power Adapter for iPhone/iPod Touch. Actually
the same functionality in Micro USB (for Android) is a bit more
expensive than for the iPhone/iPod.

People go on and on about "proprietary" but they forget that often a
proprietary design becomes some popular that the aftermarket selection
of accessories is not only huge but inexpensive. Similar to those that
complained about Li-Ion camera batteries versus AA batteries. The Li-Ion
batteries have compelling technical advantages over AA NiMH batteries,
and for the popular cameras the after-market Li-Ion batteries are not
much more than a set of AA rechargeables.

nospam

2011-01-11 22:39:53 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

Except there are so many after-market accessories for the iPhone that
they're just as cheap as "standard stuff."

So? The point is, they're non-standard.

they're a de facto standard and you can get them almost anywhere.
iphone and ipod accessories are *not* hard to find.

Post by Steve Sobol
And Apple pulls crap like that because they know they can get away with
it. Just like Nokia used to -- although I think Nokia's finally stopped.

what crap is that?

the dock connector came out in 2003. what would you have suggested
apple do back then?

they needed to have a connector that had usb, firewire, audio out and
remote control at a minimum, with room for future expansion. that is
*not* going to happen with a single micro usb connector, especially
when micro usb wasn't a standard back then.

Justin

2011-01-12 00:12:09 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

Except there are so many after-market accessories for the iPhone that
they're just as cheap as "standard stuff."

So? The point is, they're non-standard.

they're a de facto standard and you can get them almost anywhere.
iphone and ipod accessories are *not* hard to find.

they are not all compatible!

poldy

2011-01-12 06:36:59 UTC

Post by SMS
3. Micro USB charger port. It's so much flimsier than the Mini USB

port
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

I think Apple signed on to an EU mandate for micro or mini USB charger
plugs.

But that might mean that they bundle a USB to mini USB connector to
attach to the other end of the dock connector cable and the charger,
instead of having a female USB port has a micro/mini USB port.

nospam

2011-01-11 22:39:51 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

apple includes everything you need so there's no need to purchase
anything and iphone dock cables are not expensive anyway. just a couple
of bucks on ebay, for a good one (less if you don't care).

Steve Sobol

2011-01-12 00:41:37 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

apple includes everything you need so there's no need to purchase
anything and iphone dock cables are not expensive anyway. just a couple
of bucks on ebay, for a good one (less if you don't care).

That's true now. A whole ecosystem has grown up around the iPhone
because so many people own iPhones.

In general, going non-standard is not a good idea because it limits
consumer choice. As I mention in a post that you may not have seen yet,
the iPhone is the notable exception to that rule.

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

DevilsPGD

2011-01-12 01:12:46 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

apple includes everything you need so there's no need to purchase
anything

Everything you need? iPhones haven't come with a dock in years, nor
have they ever come with a second charging cable and power adapter.

Heck, even just a second cable would be enough for many users, one for
the power adapter and another to sync.

nospam

2011-01-12 01:33:02 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

apple includes everything you need so there's no need to purchase
anything

Everything you need? iPhones haven't come with a dock in years,

not that many people used the dock, especially if they have a case and
it won't fit anyway. that's why it's no longer included.

Post by DevilsPGD
nor
have they ever come with a second charging cable and power adapter.

two? how many cellphones come with two chargers?

most people plug into a computer, so there's actually not a huge need
for a power adapter, and the ipods skip that.

Post by DevilsPGD
Heck, even just a second cable would be enough for many users, one for
the power adapter and another to sync.

$3 on ebay for an apple branded sync cable, $1 from china but good luck
if it'll do more than charge (which is fine if you are only going to
use it with a power adapter).

DevilsPGD

2011-01-12 04:47:00 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

apple includes everything you need so there's no need to purchase
anything

Everything you need? iPhones haven't come with a dock in years,

not that many people used the dock, especially if they have a case and
it won't fit anyway. that's why it's no longer included.

My iPhone fits in my dock nicely enough with the case on -- Of course I
got a case that includes a dock insert, and use a dock that uses dock
adapters.

Post by DevilsPGD
nor
have they ever come with a second charging cable and power adapter.

two? how many cellphones come with two chargers?

I can't think of one. However you said "Apple includes everything you
need", which is not the case.

Post by nospam
most people plug into a computer, so there's actually not a huge need
for a power adapter, and the ipods skip that.

Plugging in to a computer as a charging method is great when you need to
charge on the road.

Justin

2011-01-12 04:53:32 UTC

Post by nospam
most people plug into a computer, so there's actually not a huge need
for a power adapter, and the ipods skip that.

Plugging in to a computer as a charging method is great when you need to
charge on the road.

And have extra time on your hands....

nospam

2011-01-12 05:09:57 UTC

Post by nospam
most people plug into a computer, so there's actually not a huge need
for a power adapter, and the ipods skip that.

Plugging in to a computer as a charging method is great when you need to
charge on the road.

And have extra time on your hands....

what extra time? if you're sitting at your desk working on a desktop or
laptop computer, plug in the iphone. you're going to be sitting there
anyway.

Justin

2011-01-12 10:40:23 UTC

Post by nospam
most people plug into a computer, so there's actually not a huge need
for a power adapter, and the ipods skip that.

Plugging in to a computer as a charging method is great when you need to
charge on the road.

And have extra time on your hands....

what extra time? if you're sitting at your desk working on a desktop or
laptop computer, plug in the iphone. you're going to be sitting there
anyway.

Sure, but if you're not it's going to take longer to charge from USB than
a dedicated charger

nospam

2011-01-12 05:04:25 UTC

Post by DevilsPGD
nor
have they ever come with a second charging cable and power adapter.

two? how many cellphones come with two chargers?

I can't think of one. However you said "Apple includes everything you
need", which is not the case.

it is the case. apple includes a power adapter and a usb sync cable,
which is all you need to charge an iphone.

users might want additional cables and/or power adapters for
convenience but only one is required. i have several, but i don't
expect apple to include 4 of them in the box.

Steve Sobol

2011-01-12 06:20:58 UTC

Post by DevilsPGD
nor
have they ever come with a second charging cable and power adapter.

two? how many cellphones come with two chargers?

I can't think of one. However you said "Apple includes everything you
need", which is not the case.

it is the case. apple includes a power adapter and a usb sync cable,
which is all you need to charge an iphone.
users might want additional cables and/or power adapters for
convenience but only one is required. i have several, but i don't
expect apple to include 4 of them in the box.

My new smartphone uses a lot of juice.

I can charge it using the charger (and actually, the charger is just a
stub that you plug a USB cable into), I can charge it by plugging it
into a USB jack on my laptop, or I can charge it and play music off it
by plugging it into the USB jack in my car.

That's a lot of flexibility. I like flexibility.

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

nospam

2011-01-12 10:21:50 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
My new smartphone uses a lot of juice.

they all do, some more than others.

Post by Steve Sobol
I can charge it using the charger (and actually, the charger is just a
stub that you plug a USB cable into), I can charge it by plugging it
into a USB jack on my laptop, or I can charge it and play music off it
by plugging it into the USB jack in my car.

exactly like an iphone or ipod.

Steve Sobol

2011-01-12 18:53:59 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
My new smartphone uses a lot of juice.

they all do, some more than others.

exactly like an iphone or ipod.

ok, and do you not need a separate adapter to plug the iPhone or iPod
into a USB jack?

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

SMS

2011-01-12 19:03:40 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
My new smartphone uses a lot of juice.

they all do, some more than others.

exactly like an iphone or ipod.

ok, and do you not need a separate adapter to plug the iPhone or iPod
into a USB jack?

You do. The same way you need a USB to Micro USB adapter to plug an
Android into a USB jack.

Here's the one for the iPhone/iPod Touch:
<http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.40078>

Here's the one for the Android:
<http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.48924>.

OMG, the one for the iPhone is 50% more expensive! $1.80 versus $1.20!

It's just a non-issue in terms of cost. And in fact, the dock
functionality on the iPhone/iPod Touch is so incredibly useful at home
and in the car, that even if the iPod charger cost 200% more that it
would still be no biggie.

Our house presently has two iPod Touch 4th generation, one Android, and
three phones that use mini-USB chargers. So I'm familiar with all these
chargers. The one thing you don't want to do is to buy any phone that
doesn't use Micro-USB, Mini-USB, or the iPhone/iPod connector.

Justin

2011-01-12 19:17:43 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
My new smartphone uses a lot of juice.

they all do, some more than others.

exactly like an iphone or ipod.

ok, and do you not need a separate adapter to plug the iPhone or iPod
into a USB jack?

You do. The same way you need a USB to Micro USB adapter to plug an
Android into a USB jack.
<http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.40078>
<http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.48924>.
OMG, the one for the iPhone is 50% more expensive! $1.80 versus $1.20!

Huh, I just bought a whole bunch of micro USB cables for 57c each at
monoprice

Post by SMS
It's just a non-issue in terms of cost. And in fact, the dock
functionality on the iPhone/iPod Touch is so incredibly useful at home
and in the car, that even if the iPod charger cost 200% more that it
would still be no biggie.

iPhone and iPod touch need different doc pieces of plastic. Ridiculous
really

SMS

2011-01-12 19:42:32 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
My new smartphone uses a lot of juice.

they all do, some more than others.

exactly like an iphone or ipod.

ok, and do you not need a separate adapter to plug the iPhone or iPod
into a USB jack?

Huh, I just bought a whole bunch of micro USB cables for 57c each at
monoprice

Yeah, monoprice.com is often cheaper than dealextreme.com.

One thing I'm in the process of doing is taking a 110VAC-5VDC 2A adapter
<http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9488> and adding 4 female USB
connectors, then buying/making up male USB to whatever I need cables
(Mini-USB, Micro-USB, Nintendo DSi, iPod Touch, Sansa, Magellan) so when
we go on trips I can take fewer chargers. I'll also get a 5V 2A
cigarette lighter adapter and splitter to use with these cords
<http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.45227> +
<http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35907>. The splitter comes
with only a 1A adapter which is not enough current for four devices.

My Magellan GPS uses a proprietary connector because the power supply is
5V 2A (it's got a 7" screen) so they couldn't do USB powering. I want to
be able to charge it at home. It was very difficult to find the barrel
connector for the Magellan, it's a 3.2mm OD 0.9mm ID and Radio Shanty
doesn't carry them, nor are they included with any "universal" AC
adapters. Finally found them at Digikey.

It's not just carrying fewer chargers, it's also that there often aren't
a lot of outlets at the hotel so I end up taking triple taps or power
strips too. A lot of airplanes now have outlets now, but not enough. In
the vehicle we take on road trips, I now have 12 cigarette lighter
outlets, and four USB outlets.

Steve Sobol

2011-01-12 22:07:06 UTC

Post by SMS
Yeah, monoprice.com is often cheaper than dealextreme.com.

Monoprice seems to be THE place to go for cables. Have you seen their
HDMI cables? $3-$5 for the same cable Wal-Mart and Best Buy sell for
$25-40.

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

Justin

2011-01-13 01:07:12 UTC

Post by SMS
Yeah, monoprice.com is often cheaper than dealextreme.com.

Monoprice seems to be THE place to go for cables. Have you seen their
HDMI cables? $3-$5 for the same cable Wal-Mart and Best Buy sell for
$25-40.

Oh yeah. I picked up several 6 foot HDMI cables for $3 when I got the
USB cables.

Steve Sobol

2011-01-12 22:05:37 UTC

Post by SMS
You do. The same way you need a USB to Micro USB adapter to plug an
Android into a USB jack.

I call bullshit, Steve; my HTC MyTouch 4G has a microUSB jack. You just
need the proper cable. And a microUSB cable ships with the MyTouch, and
you can get more at MonoPrice for a buck or two per cable.

I believe my mom's Moto Droid X also has a microUSB jack.

So did the phone my MyTouch replaced - an LG Sentio featurephone (which,
by the way, wasn't an Android handset.)

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

nospam

2011-01-12 22:34:20 UTC

Post by SMS
You do. The same way you need a USB to Micro USB adapter to plug an
Android into a USB jack.

I call bullshit, Steve; my HTC MyTouch 4G has a microUSB jack. You just
need the proper cable.

the iphone ships with the proper cable.

Post by Steve Sobol
And a microUSB cable ships with the MyTouch,

just like the iphone.

Post by Steve Sobol
and you can get more at MonoPrice for a buck or two per cable.

just like the iphone.

SMS

2011-01-13 02:38:09 UTC

Post by SMS
You do. The same way you need a USB to Micro USB adapter to plug an
Android into a USB jack.

I call bullshit, Steve; my HTC MyTouch 4G has a microUSB jack. You just
need the proper cable.

Just like you need the proper cable from a USB port to the Apple
connector. The cost is not significantly different in absolute terms.
Both are less than $2.

Justin

2011-01-13 02:44:44 UTC

Post by SMS
You do. The same way you need a USB to Micro USB adapter to plug an
Android into a USB jack.

I call bullshit, Steve; my HTC MyTouch 4G has a microUSB jack. You just
need the proper cable.

Just like you need the proper cable from a USB port to the Apple
connector. The cost is not significantly different in absolute terms.
Both are less than $2.

You're bound to have more devices that use micro USB than that apple connector
even my mouse uses micro usb to charge

SMS

2011-01-13 03:16:15 UTC

Post by Justin
You're bound to have more devices that use micro USB than that apple connector
even my mouse uses micro usb to charge

In our house we have four Mini USB phones, one Micro USB phone, and
three Apple devices. What's annoying is that the Jabra headsets could
have used Mini or Micro USB but didn't, and the Nintendo DSi could mave
used mini-USB but didn't, and the Sony Bluetooth stereo headphones could
have used Micro or Mini USB but didn't.

People go on and on about "proprietary" versus standard, but in the case
of the Apple connector, it's on hundreds of millions of devices so
charging cables have become a commodity.

nospam

2011-01-12 19:15:39 UTC

exactly like an iphone or ipod.

ok, and do you not need a separate adapter to plug the iPhone or iPod
into a USB jack?

use the cable that came with it and plug it into any usb port, or into
the included power adapter if you prefer.

Richard B. Gilbert

2011-01-13 15:07:59 UTC

Post by DevilsPGD
nor
have they ever come with a second charging cable and power adapter.

two? how many cellphones come with two chargers?

I can't think of one. However you said "Apple includes everything you
need", which is not the case.

it is the case. apple includes a power adapter and a usb sync cable,
which is all you need to charge an iphone.

How about if we put you on the proverbial desert island and watch you
try to charge your iPhone??????

That 110-120 volt AC line, that you are assuming, can be found in a lot
of places. There are situations where it either does not exist or is
not available to you!

SMS

2011-01-13 15:38:33 UTC

Post by DevilsPGD
nor
have they ever come with a second charging cable and power adapter.

two? how many cellphones come with two chargers?

I can't think of one. However you said "Apple includes everything you
need", which is not the case.

it is the case. apple includes a power adapter and a usb sync cable,
which is all you need to charge an iphone.

How about if we put you on the proverbial desert island and watch you
try to charge your iPhone??????

<http://www.amazon.com/Freeloader-Solar-Rechargeable-iPhone-Charger/dp/B0029KH944>

nospam

2011-01-13 15:43:05 UTC

Post by DevilsPGD
nor
have they ever come with a second charging cable and power adapter.

two? how many cellphones come with two chargers?

I can't think of one. However you said "Apple includes everything you
need", which is not the case.

it is the case. apple includes a power adapter and a usb sync cable,
which is all you need to charge an iphone.

How about if we put you on the proverbial desert island and watch you
try to charge your iPhone??????

what for? it's not like there's cellular service on a desert island.

personally, i'd wait for a landline trunk to wash ashore and tap into
it like the professor did. :)

Post by Richard B. Gilbert
That 110-120 volt AC line, that you are assuming, can be found in a lot
of places. There are situations where it either does not exist or is
not available to you!

so what? how would you charge something other than an iphone? oh right,
you can't do that either.

did you have a point?

Justin

2011-01-13 16:35:53 UTC

Post by DevilsPGD
nor
have they ever come with a second charging cable and power adapter.

two? how many cellphones come with two chargers?

I can't think of one. However you said "Apple includes everything you
need", which is not the case.

it is the case. apple includes a power adapter and a usb sync cable,
which is all you need to charge an iphone.

How about if we put you on the proverbial desert island and watch you
try to charge your iPhone??????

what for? it's not like there's cellular service on a desert island.

Depends how far out that island is, I guess.

DevilsPGD

2011-01-13 20:57:42 UTC

Post by nospam
what for? it's not like there's cellular service on a desert island.

Angry birds.

nospam

2011-01-14 01:06:28 UTC

Post by nospam
what for? it's not like there's cellular service on a desert island.

Angry birds.

good point :)

DevilsPGD

2011-01-12 01:12:46 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

Didn't Apple sign on to that group of industry manufacturers in the EU
that agreed to come up with a common connector to avoid regulation that
would force the issue (potentially leaving them stuck with an out of
date option later)?

nospam

2011-01-12 01:33:46 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

yes and they're probably going to provide a free adapter.

Fred

2011-01-12 05:57:51 UTC

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

Steve, do you know what the "Apple Tax" is on 3rd parties using that
connector on their products? Whatever that dock connector is on seems
awful expensive, compared to similar products like speaker/amps that don't
have it. Apple loves the proprietary connector because they must be
licensing its use to outside vendors so you can plug in your itoys to their
stuff.

Steve Sobol

2011-01-12 06:23:29 UTC

In article <***@74.209.131.13>, ***@home.com
says...

Post by Fred

Post by Steve Sobol
Everyone's going to micro USB... except companies like Apple that still
prefer to make you purchase proprietary accessories.

Steve, do you know what the "Apple Tax" is on 3rd parties using that
connector on their products?

No. You don't have to buy the accessories from Apple, and they're not
horribly expensive because the market is pretty large; but as I pointed
out just now, my HTC MyTouch 4G can charge using the charger, plugged
into my laptop, plugged into my car's USB port... anywhere a USB port is
available.

--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA
***@JustThe.net

nospam

2011-01-11 22:39:50 UTC

but a certain unnamed someone said the dock connector was bad and usb
is good. :)

Post by SMS
2. No IPSEC VPN. This is a very big issue. Enterprises are not allowing
Android based smart phones because of it. It's not a Cisco issue, it's
an issue with the Android OS, that will not be fixed for probably
another six months. I can't use my ISP's VPN for a secure connection
over Wi-Fi.

the iphone only does cisco ipsec vpn, which rules out a number of ipsec
endpoints.

Post by SMS
3. Micro USB charger port. It's so much flimsier than the Mini USB port
on my other phones, and flimsier than the iPod dock/charging connector.

but it's officially usb, which the dock connector supposedly isn't :)

Post by SMS
4. Limited accessories. Since the Android market is so fragmented, and
since there's no standard dock, you don't get any of the cool
accessories like you do for the iPhone.

very true.

Post by SMS
Positives
1. Physical keyboard. A lot better than a virtual keyboard if you're
doing a lot of texting or e-mail, but realistically, for most users, the
virtual keyboard is sufficient.

some prefer one, some prefer the other.

Post by SMS
2. MicroSD card slot. Since the Droid doesn't have as much flash
available as the iPhone, this is essential.

micro sd is limited to 32 gig and the iphone has that standard.

Post by SMS
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want a
spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day of use.

the iphone generally does get through a day of use, usually more.

Post by SMS
Bottom line, the Verizon iPhone will be a huge seller. Most large
businesses use Verizon, and they _require_ VPN to get into their
corporate networks, which rules out Droid for now.

but android is open! just add it!

Justin

2011-01-12 00:14:15 UTC

but a certain unnamed someone said the dock connector was bad and usb
is good. :)

the iphone only does cisco ipsec vpn, which rules out a number of ipsec
endpoints.

My droid X does the VPN I need to get to my work. Juniper junos

Post by SMS
2. MicroSD card slot. Since the Droid doesn't have as much flash
available as the iPhone, this is essential.

micro sd is limited to 32 gig and the iphone has that standard.

No it doesn't. 16GB is standard. I have 8GB inbuilt in my droid and 16GB
more in an SD slot.

Post by SMS
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want a
spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day of use.

the iphone generally does get through a day of use, usually more.

Depends how much use it gets

nospam

2011-01-12 01:40:40 UTC

Post by SMS
2. MicroSD card slot. Since the Droid doesn't have as much flash
available as the iPhone, this is essential.

micro sd is limited to 32 gig and the iphone has that standard.

No it doesn't. 16GB is standard. I have 8GB inbuilt in my droid and 16GB
more in an SD slot.

16 & 32 gig are standard for the iphone 4, and 8 gig for the current
3gs (not the original).

Post by SMS
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want a
spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day of use.

the iphone generally does get through a day of use, usually more.

Depends how much use it gets

true, and most people are not away from a power outlet long enough to
matter. as long as it lasts a day or so, they can charge it overnight.

Justin

2011-01-12 02:32:27 UTC

Post by SMS
2. MicroSD card slot. Since the Droid doesn't have as much flash
available as the iPhone, this is essential.

micro sd is limited to 32 gig and the iphone has that standard.

No it doesn't. 16GB is standard. I have 8GB inbuilt in my droid and 16GB
more in an SD slot.

16 & 32 gig are standard for the iphone 4, and 8 gig for the current
3gs (not the original).

16GB is the model sold how much compared to the 32 GB?

Post by SMS
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want a
spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day of use.

the iphone generally does get through a day of use, usually more.

Depends how much use it gets

true, and most people are not away from a power outlet long enough to
matter. as long as it lasts a day or so, they can charge it overnight.

Huh, my bosses has lost power overnight sitting on the night stand from
a full charge on a busy work night. I.e. emails coming in every few seconds.

nospam

2011-01-12 02:39:38 UTC

Post by SMS
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want a
spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day of use.

the iphone generally does get through a day of use, usually more.

Depends how much use it gets

true, and most people are not away from a power outlet long enough to
matter. as long as it lasts a day or so, they can charge it overnight.

Huh, my bosses has lost power overnight sitting on the night stand from
a full charge on a busy work night. I.e. emails coming in every few seconds.

how many people get email every few seconds? not many.

plus, if it was sitting on the night stand with that much email
traffic, why not plug it in? isn't there a power outlet behind the
night stand?

Justin

2011-01-12 02:50:15 UTC

Post by SMS
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want a
spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day of use.

the iphone generally does get through a day of use, usually more.

Depends how much use it gets

true, and most people are not away from a power outlet long enough to
matter. as long as it lasts a day or so, they can charge it overnight.

Huh, my bosses has lost power overnight sitting on the night stand from
a full charge on a busy work night. I.e. emails coming in every few seconds.

how many people get email every few seconds? not many.

True, but there was no other usage happening, just receiving email

Post by nospam
plus, if it was sitting on the night stand with that much email
traffic, why not plug it in? isn't there a power outlet behind the
night stand?

I have no idea! Sitting on a night stand for 7 hours it shouldn't be
running close to zero power with no usage

nospam

2011-01-12 05:06:33 UTC

Post by Justin
Huh, my bosses has lost power overnight sitting on the night stand from
a full charge on a busy work night. I.e. emails coming in every few seconds.

how many people get email every few seconds? not many.

True, but there was no other usage happening, just receiving email

receiving email every 4 seconds is quite a bit.

Post by nospam
plus, if it was sitting on the night stand with that much email
traffic, why not plug it in? isn't there a power outlet behind the
night stand?

I have no idea! Sitting on a night stand for 7 hours it shouldn't be
running close to zero power with no usage

no usage? just what do you call getting emails every 4 seconds? at that
rate, it wont' ever sleep.

Richard B. Gilbert

2011-01-12 02:42:23 UTC

Post by SMS
2. MicroSD card slot. Since the Droid doesn't have as much flash
available as the iPhone, this is essential.

micro sd is limited to 32 gig and the iphone has that standard.

No it doesn't. 16GB is standard. I have 8GB inbuilt in my droid and 16GB
more in an SD slot.

16& 32 gig are standard for the iphone 4, and 8 gig for the current
3gs (not the original).

16GB is the model sold how much compared to the 32 GB?

Post by SMS
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want a
spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day of use.

the iphone generally does get through a day of use, usually more.

Depends how much use it gets

true, and most people are not away from a power outlet long enough to
matter. as long as it lasts a day or so, they can charge it overnight.

Huh, my bosses has lost power overnight sitting on the night stand from
a full charge on a busy work night. I.e. emails coming in every few seconds.

Let us say that "emails coming in every few seconds" means an average of
four messages a minute or 240 messages per hour or 1920 messages in
eight hours. Where does he find time to read all these messages and
respond?

Hyperbole??

Justin

2011-01-12 02:51:51 UTC

Post by SMS
2. MicroSD card slot. Since the Droid doesn't have as much flash
available as the iPhone, this is essential.

micro sd is limited to 32 gig and the iphone has that standard.

No it doesn't. 16GB is standard. I have 8GB inbuilt in my droid and 16GB
more in an SD slot.

16& 32 gig are standard for the iphone 4, and 8 gig for the current
3gs (not the original).

16GB is the model sold how much compared to the 32 GB?

Post by SMS
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want a
spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day of use.

the iphone generally does get through a day of use, usually more.

Depends how much use it gets

true, and most people are not away from a power outlet long enough to
matter. as long as it lasts a day or so, they can charge it overnight.

Huh, my bosses has lost power overnight sitting on the night stand from
a full charge on a busy work night. I.e. emails coming in every few seconds.

Did I say he read and responded to them all? No.

On weekends when there is production maintenance and the email alerting
system isn't turned off it's not uncommon.

I received 263 SMS messages from an errant alert in the span of 6 minutes
that night.

Justin

2011-01-12 03:21:47 UTC

Post by SMS
2. MicroSD card slot. Since the Droid doesn't have as much flash
available as the iPhone, this is essential.

micro sd is limited to 32 gig and the iphone has that standard.

No it doesn't. 16GB is standard. I have 8GB inbuilt in my droid and 16GB
more in an SD slot.

16 & 32 gig are standard for the iphone 4, and 8 gig for the current
3gs (not the original).

16GB is the model sold how much compared to the 32 GB?

Now that I think about it, I wonder what your definition of standard is
if a car comes standard with 4 tyres, that doesn't mean that a low end model
comes with 3.

DevilsPGD

2011-01-12 01:12:46 UTC

Post by SMS
1. No dock connector. The added functionality of the Apple dock is very
useful. A defined dock connector would have been a big selling point for
Android because it would have enabled an ecosystem similar to what's
sprung up around the iPhone/iPod to have evolved. While there's a design
for an open standard dock connector, there are no Android devices that
use it yet, and of course no peripherals either. Such is the result of
the fragmented Android market.

I love my desktop dock (I hate loose wires connected to loose devices)
however I'd be very tempted to trade it for a standard connector instead
of dragging around yet another proprietary cable for just one device.

Carl

2011-01-12 05:16:41 UTC

Post by SMS
Having had a Droid for all of five days, the Verizon iPhone is going
to be a huge hit.
Negatives about the Droid
1. No dock connector. The added functionality of the Apple dock is
very useful. A defined dock connector would have been a big selling
point for Android because it would have enabled an ecosystem similar
to what's sprung up around the iPhone/iPod to have evolved. While
there's a design for an open standard dock connector, there are no
Android devices that use it yet, and of course no peripherals either.
Such is the result of the fragmented Android market.
2. No IPSEC VPN. This is a very big issue. Enterprises are not
allowing Android based smart phones because of it. It's not a Cisco
issue, it's an issue with the Android OS, that will not be fixed for
probably
another six months. I can't use my ISP's VPN for a secure connection
over Wi-Fi.
3. Micro USB charger port. It's so much flimsier than the Mini USB
port on my other phones, and flimsier than the iPod dock/charging
connector.
4. Limited accessories. Since the Android market is so fragmented, and
since there's no standard dock, you don't get any of the cool
accessories like you do for the iPhone.
Positives
1. Physical keyboard. A lot better than a virtual keyboard if you're
doing a lot of texting or e-mail, but realistically, for most users,
the virtual keyboard is sufficient.
2. MicroSD card slot. Since the Droid doesn't have as much flash
available as the iPhone, this is essential.
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want
a spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day
of use.
Bottom line, the Verizon iPhone will be a huge seller. Most large
businesses use Verizon, and they _require_ VPN to get into their
corporate networks, which rules out Droid for now.
Don't forget positive 4. Plays Flashplayer videos

If you think this is no big deal, wait until you see how many pages you
can't access correctly if at all.

JC Dill

2011-01-12 06:49:31 UTC

Post by Carl

Post by SMS
Don't forget positive 4. Plays Flashplayer videos

If you think this is no big deal, wait until you see how many pages you
can't access correctly if at all.

I just attended a Photoshop User's Group presentation by Russell Brown.
He showed apps for photographers for both the Galaxy Tab and the iPad.
It was noted (more than once) that you can play Flash galleries of
photos (such as the New York Times photo galleries) on the Tab. Russell
also said that the screen on the Tab displayed photos better than the iPad.

I've been lusting after an iPad. After his presentation, I'm going to
take a good look at the Galaxy Tab instead.

But I'm still not thrilled with my Droid, and will likely get an iPhone
to replace it when the time comes.

I'm open to using almost anything, just as long as the device isn't
running Windoze. :-)

jc

jcdill

2011-01-12 06:50:04 UTC

Post by Carl

Post by SMS
Don't forget positive 4. Plays Flashplayer videos

If you think this is no big deal, wait until you see how many pages you
can't access correctly if at all.

SMS

2011-01-12 12:43:22 UTC

Post by Carl

If you think this is no big deal, wait until you see how many pages you
can't access correctly if at all.

Yeah, I missed that one. Indeed, Flash support is a _huge_ advantage of
Android.

DevilsPGD

2011-01-12 23:14:53 UTC

Post by SMS
Yeah, I missed that one. Indeed, Flash support is a _huge_ advantage of
Android.

Does it support FlashBlock? In other words, require a click/tap to
activate Flash? Or does Flash crap just start running on it's own?

Justin

2011-01-13 01:08:32 UTC

Post by SMS
Yeah, I missed that one. Indeed, Flash support is a _huge_ advantage of
Android.

Does it support FlashBlock? In other words, require a click/tap to
activate Flash? Or does Flash crap just start running on it's own?

I use the Dolphin HD browser, and it by default makes Flash optional.
You have a little icon where the flash goes, and tap it to download
and run it.

poldy

2011-01-12 06:33:21 UTC

Post by SMS
3. Replaceable battery. If you use Wi-Fi a lot, you actually may want a
spare battery and an external charger, just to get through one day of use.

I got a spare external battery from Monoprice.com for about $10. It
connects to the dock connector and charges the internal battery or lets
you use the iPhone while charging.

It doesn't stay in place though. You can get a case with an integrated
battery for about $25 from Monoprice.

crkeehn

2011-01-12 10:50:14 UTC